A couple years ago, Ray Comfort tried to get Richard Dawkins to debate him. I am convinced that he did this only to try to make himself seem more important than he could ever be otherwise. Dawkins wasn’t generous enough to give Ray that much undeserved credibility. So I posted a challenge to Ray myself.
Of course he ignored me, but it generated some positive interest on the web. Yahoo.Answers even posted the question, Who would win in a debate between Aronra and Ray Comfort? Well it looks like we’re finally gonna find out. At 9:00pm central [Texas] time on Monday, September 17th, I will debate the Banana Man live on Radio-Paul’s Radio Rants.
A month or so ago, Dillahunty was on that show. Now it’s my turn, and I’ve been looking forward to this for a long time.
Bit of a foregone conclusion, but every once in a while it’s okay to enjoy some gratuitous gore and mayhem, right?
Holy Crap… I’m there.. Gonna be Epic.. Tear his ass up, Aron!
Good luck! Not that I reckon you’ll need it – go (metaphorically) smash him!
Snap!
I’m fidgeting in my seat in excitement! Can’t wait to see the evisceration!
So, wait, this is going to be a live debate? I guess that means fact checking isn’t a priority?
~will put on some Tally Hall Bananaman, to watch the debate in style~
Ive seen a buch of places where BananaBoy has “Debated” prominent atheists. I really dont know why you are putting yourself through this.
*Spoiler alert*
You could try and tell him “Do you acknowledge that 2 + 2 = 4” .. and he would say, “no, because it doesnt say it in the bible, and i know i am correct because the bible is correct and the bible is correct because i know i am correct and so you are wrong” …
Then you will ask him “Could you be wrong” … he will say “No, the bible is correct because it is the word of god and i know it is correct because god told me it was correct” …
But seriously, I have seen you debate and you deserve a better opponent (not that i thinnk there are any).
*second spoiler alert*
Anyone want to start a Ray comfort Bingo… lets see how many times he mentions the words
Crocoduck
“where is the evidence”
“There are no transitional fossils”
“the most intelligent man on the face of the earth cannot make a grain of sand”
No, no, no, no. Ugh. Seriously? Ray is a showman, like Sye Tenbruggencate. He’s already won by you giving him a platform to preach, he doesn’t debate. I’ve yet to see a good debate with Ray because none of the debaters actually have any experience with him. It’s not about facts but rhetoric.
Your knowledge of science means practically nothing here. It’s all about your knowledge of Raytheism.
Probably the best/worst example is Thunderf00t’s attempt.
I really wish there had been a bit more notice, I would have written up a guide or something. What is the scope of the debate?
Sorry if that came across overly dickish, but there are so many of us that take on Ray on a day to day basis on his blog and who know his tricks and it’s extremely frustrating to see people wander into his debates blindly.
Pretttttyyyy sure Aronra is not wandering into this blindly…how presumptious.
I certainly hope not, just burnt by pretty much every Ray Comfort debate ever.
Living Waters is circling the drain. Comfort is looking for any publicity that will put cash in his coffers. Don’t give him the publicity. He’s just the pigeon that will knock over the chess pieces and shit all over the board and call it a victory. Let Comfort and LW go broke so he can get a job as a greeter at Walmart. If he’s qualified for the position.
I have to agree.
There is no valid reason to give Comfort the publicity. He is in a downward spiral and this will just give him more fuel.
What? Why? Didn’t you challenge him to a video debate, since facts are what matters in science? If he won’t agree to that, why give him the time of day?
He’s just going to feed off the attention and spew a bunch of nonsense. Why set yourself up for a Gish-gallop?
Just remember the most important thing about Ray Comfort: he’s from New Zealand, not Australia. Some people think he is, but he’s not. We’re embarrassed enough as it is about Ken Ham without also having the bananaman attributed to us.
I really don’t think Ray will be ready for me. I predict this will be every bit as one-sided as everyone expects it to be.
I disagree.
Ray will simply say you are wrong and he is correct cause the bible says so and you weren’t there to see the things you claim happened and his god was there to see it.
This is a mistake. Let Ray go. He is doing himself in right now. His ministry is circling the drain. He has laid off his heavy hitters. His days are numbered.
No Science Facts will win you this debate. None whatsoever. Ray is a slightly (only slightly) more mature version of ShockofGod.
Please take the time to review Ray’s blog and get used to his rhetoric.
I think one of the best things you can do is hammer him on his dishonesty. Never ever let him get away with a lie. Know that every lie he says about science he knows is lie and has been corrected on dozens (if not hundreds of times) including times he has acknowledged the correction and then gone right back to lying. PZ Myers “Elephantine errors from Ray Comfort” is a great example of the “Lie, Correction, Acknowledged then continue to Lie” loop.
Ray even recently blogged that ‘evolutionists’ always run away from answering questions, despite that his blog is full of people who always answer his questions and it’s Ray and the other funditards who always run away.
Please have soundbite answers ready for questions like
“when is it ok to kill a baby in the womb”
This is super important as you must know that for the last year Ray’s major project has been his 180/Hitler project. My favourite answer is ‘whenever God tells you to.’ But you will probably have your own take on it.
“Athiests believe nothing created everything”
Ray believes nothing created God who created everything from nothing so this is just an example of his arguing by ridicule. A huge point here is that many of the scientific theories he hates were developed by Christians.
“are you a good person”
Remember Ray’s definition of Good is used by no other person on earth, it’s ‘perfectly lawfully followed 9 (not 10) of the 600+ old testament laws’
Questions Ray refuses to answer:
These are some questions that Ray can’t answer and always runs from
Where does the bible define which laws are forever and which laws were just for the ancient Hebrews.
What is a meaningful testable definition of Kind. (Now this one area I know you can kick his ass on). Because we can’t provide ‘transitions’ until he sets what needs to be transitioned.
How do we not meet the biological definition of a primate? Also hammer that these definitions first came from a Christian.
Please just don’t let this be as wasted an opportunity as Thunderf00ts discussion was. It seems that many people just see Ray as a Creationist and go ‘Herp Derp, I can spell Tiktaalik Roseae, this will be easy’ and then when Ray asks ‘Why is pedophillia wrong’ they just crash and burn.
I appreciate your suggestions, and will not let this be a wasted opportunity.
Thanks, we know you got the science down. It’s the Comfortisms that need to be watched for.
Ya should open an IRC chat room or something for quick assists too….
Just in case.
Actually, that’s a seriously good suggestion, is the debate airing live?
I’ve seen a debate live with a creo doing a Gish Gallop. (Actually, it was Gish himself.) It occurred to me that the best way to respond was to be familiar with all the errors he was going to make and put up a series of graphics debunking every single one while making clear verbally that there are so many errors there just isn’t time to answer each one verbally. Then, while the graphics are going, either address a few in particular, or make some meta argument.
Of course, this won’t work on the radio, but something to consider.
Make him answer your questions. He will ramble, change the subject, etcetera, but when he’s finished, tell the audience that he hasn’t answered the question – and ask it again, and again, and again. With a bit of luck he might even do a flounce 🙂
My favorite part of the Reason Rally was watching you grab a fervent young believer by the shoulders and tell him, “You are an ape!”
I’ll be making popcorn for this while my family gathers around the laptop in the living room. I have absolutely no doubt you’ll have studied his debate tactics and come up with ways to make him wish he had just said no to this one.
AronRa,
I must second and third my fellow WEARESMRT posters. You are wasting your time with Comfort, he’s nothing more but a flim-flam artist.
There cannot be an intelligent debate, since Ray Comfort merely uses the format of a debate and hijacks it with his antics. However, we at WEARESMRT have tons of experience with dealing with Comfort and his associates and have gathered much intelligence on the creep.
If you are willing, we can share with you inside information about Living Waters Publications, it’s finances (we have his 990 forms from the IRS), the threats of litigations I’ve had from LWP, How many times he’s been caught in his own lies, his plagiarism and The exact numbers of his so-called “Ambassador’s Alliance” (We call it AMBA for short).
As my fellow posters pointed out, he is circling the drain, 180: the movie is a flop, and he’s clutching at straws to maintain credibility among evangelicals.
While I know there can never be anything positive from trying to debate with that scumbag, the intel we possess does come handy in making it so that he is crippled and done for by shattering this cult of personality he’s got going among evangelical circles.
W01F
Remember to remind him 5 minutes before you start the debate that gay marriage is only months away from being legalised in New Zealand
Greetings Aron,
Just wanted to add to what others have suggested.
Comfort is one of those who are quick-witted, who thinks on their feet – he comes back with quick answers, even if they’re only popcorn.
It means that “thinkers”, like Thundderf00t, have to stop and think before answering, which makes them – and made him – look slow and uncertain.
His main answer will be to use the Bible as the ultimate authority against science and scientists.
The simplest answer to this is to quote Paine’s famous saying:
“The Word of God is the Creation we behold, and it is in this Word, which no human invention can counterfeit or alter, that God speaketh universally to Man.”
The point that Paine was making is that the Bible – and all other “holy” books – is an “indirect word”: Nature (Creation) is the ONLY “Direct Word” of which we can be certain.
Ask him to decide which takes precedence: the Direct Word or the (any!) indirect word?
If he chooses unwisely, his soul is in danger of being led astray.
Also, with regard to the 6000 years old Earth/Cosmos, see my suggested response on LoR:
http://www.leagueofreason.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=138962#p138962
Kindest regards,
James
Why do this? You need to be amused? Do you think “debated Ray Comfort” is going to look good on your CV?
Jesus Christ, you did a wonderful 145 part series debunking creationism, what more has to be said? You are now an accomplice to his fleecing money and brain cells from pitiably educated young Americans. Bah!
My goal is to cut some of Ray’s income by reducing his flock.
I will be there for the entertainment/carnage but according to the description of the challenge video, isn’t this the kind of debate that you were trying to avoid? It’s live so you won’t be able to fact check and research his claims. Are you concerned about that?
Not if he’s aware of every little lie, inconsistency and shenanigan that the Banana man has done, spewed, and otherwise marketed.
And we at WEARESMRT have done just that. Ray refers to us as the “Ray-is-lying” site. He actually has some of his ministry spy on us.
So knowing AronRa, he probably already have these facts from his own research or from us and he will be able to expose the carnival barker antics from Ray with the same ease most of us on his blog have done for years.
In essence. Done right, Ray is FUBAR. But remember, this won’t be a ‘debate’ in a traditional sense. This will be more “How can we prevent that bastard from using us as his “heckler” and tear him to pieces”.
Hitchens, when interviewed by Todd Friel (a past Living Waters associate) showed a rather good method to derail the scripts designed by Ray Comfort(don’t play along).
Heck, if you read his course material that he promotes, it’s not that difficult to figure out how he goes about things. Ray only plays on the good will of others and takes advantage of it.
The solution? Don’t give him an inch, Make sure that he is reprimanded each time he switches to preaching, expose his source material (Kent Hovind) and expose how many times he was explained his bogus claims in the past, and he will do you a favor by making an ass of himself by acting nothing is wrong with him and that plays in our favor.
The more he insists on his sources as true, the more he tries to deny what is now common knowledge about his past, the more he will lose credibility in the eyes of his fellow evangelicals, turning from their champion, to a liability.
W01F
Sounds good. Let’s hope it plays out that way and aron gives him the bashing around the ears that he deserves.
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