Vic Wang of Houston Atheists explains their standing debate challenge to Ken Ham of answersingenesis.
Be sure to see the end notes.
We haven’t heard from Mr Ham since Prof Myers PhD threw his gauntlet into the ring alongside mine.
Houston Atheists’ challenge to Ken Ham
Brave Sir Ken Ham ran away.
Boldly ran away, away
When Myers and Ra raised their challenging heads
Ole Ken Ham very bravely fled
Bravest of the brave Ken Ham!
– With apologies to Monty Python & The namesake NASA astronaut
Despite everything he claims to believe Ken is not so stupid as to take on PZ/RA
as he knows that in logic and debate he would look stupid to even his own sheeple.
Clearly the kind of people Ham wants to debate are academics who’ve had little to no experience arguing with shine-swilling six-toed creationist whackaloons before; through a combination of Gish Galloping and stupid retorts like “were you there?” (something which, oddly enough, doesn’t count when you ask it of a creationist) he’d at least be able to give the impression of stumping them. It’s easy to make someone look wrong-footed when you’re an adult asking questions that would seem stupid to a 9 year-old.
The thought of getting taken to the cleaners by people like PZ, an academic with a lifetime’s knowledge and study of evolution and a history of uncompromisingly debunking creationism and Aron, a ferocious opponent with an enviable knowledge of cladistics and palaeontology, must keep him up at night. It’s a pity this probably won’t happen because I would pay real, actual money to see a shyster like Ham get both of those particular barrels.
I’ve always looked at the whole “were you there” question as follows.
You’re at home with your 4-yr old son, Timmy. Just the two of you. No one else is home, and you don’t have any pets. You’re both in the kitchen, and there’s a slice of chocolate cake on a plate on the kitchen table. The phone rings, and it’s your neighbor who asks you to come over and help with a MacGuffin problem. You tell Timmy not to eat the cake, and you’ll be back in a moment. You go to the neighbor’s, returning 15 minutes later.
The plate holding the chocolate cake s empty, save for a few crumbs. Chocolate icing is smeared on the table in little hand prints. Timmy is standing by the table. Chocolate icing is on his hands, mouth, and shirt. There’s a little pile of chocolate cake crumbs on the floor by his feet. You ask Timmy if he ate the cake, and he says no. When he speaks you can see chocolate icing on his teeth.
Do you punish Timmy?
If the answer is yes, why? Did you see him eat the cake? Were you there? No to all. So by what logic do you punish Timmy? Surely he must go unpunished, as there’s no possible way to determine what happened to the cake since, after all, you weren’t there to see what happened to it.
I like to imagine the sort of conversations that go on at Answers in Genesis when discussing these challenges. They’re in a meeting room discussing the challenge for a debate. Ken and each of his cronies knows deep down inside that their arguments are bullshit but they think that everybody else truly believes.
Must be awkward coming up with excuses for not agreeing to the debate. And coming up with ones that seem reasonable to their flock so they don’t look like cowards.
Should creationists be debated? They can actually ‘win’ debates because they can toss out tons of well rehearsed bullshit. Treat them like flat earthers. They should either be ignored or mocked.
You can’t ignore Ham. He is one of the single most founts of scientific illiteracy in the country. Thousands of children and adults are misled by him ever year.
Agreed. People like Ham can be hard to combat in this manner, but it must be done.
Yeah. And look at the rate at which they’re breeding!
Last I heard, which has been a little while, so it’s possible that things have developed, Ham was still whining over the “unprofessional” insults in the challenge letter and about there not being an address given, where he could answer the challenge. Could it be, he was too lazy to google “Houston Atheists?” Oh that’s right. Indolence is the hallmark of the modern Creationist. He’s getting a lot of sympathy on a number of Creationist blogs.
I’ll have to check for developments. I want to see the Youtube of this debate, and I won’t be able to, if the debate doesn’t take place.
These apologists ‘win debates’ by cheating because they are not moderated or moderated to their advantage.
Get a debate with a FAIR moderator who also has a mic killer button and let each side argue back and forth under control such that the dimwit can’t throw out 50 BS statements in a few seconds and ….
OH! sorry I just realized they would probably not agree to do so.
Ham’s blog article about the challenge says that he intends to answer it. However, what he probably plans is to not answer it and then, when the debate doesn’t take place, claim victory by default.
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